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I went to a second alarm yesterday. I was notified of the fire at lunch and responded code three from downtown. When I got there, we had three houses in the inner-city going. One well involved and exposures on side "D" and "B", the "D" exposure being the worst of the two.
I asked the battalion chief (Command) what he needed and he asked me to take side "C" (the rear of the fire off the alley).
When I got back there Command told me he had an engine laying down the alley to me. When they arrived, I approached the first firefighter off the engine and told him I wanted a 2 1/2" line pulled into the back yard. He looked at me and said "2 1/2" , I could pull the 1 3/4" faster!".
I immediately looked at him and said 2 1/2".

Here's this young kid, looking at me and saying he could pull the smaller line faster. I never would have said something like that to a chief 25 or 30 years ago. What do you think they are thinking?

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posted by Skip Coleman
7/26/2007 06:26:00 PM

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Blogger Frank Montagna said...

Skip,
We would never have asked such a question of the chief. The new guys are smart and used to questioning authority and often do. That is the reason you have to explain the why as they are being trained. Given this knowledge in advance they won't have to question directions and when they are unsupervised they will make better decisions.

Mon Jul 30, 08:32:00 PM EDT  
Blogger NWG said...

I tend to be black and white about these things. You're the chief, I'm the firefighter. I do what you tell me to do. If it is immediately, and irreasonably, dangerous to me what you are asking me to do, then I might question it. That firefighters remark to you was just wrong. You're the tactical guy, he's the implementer. He can disagree with you all he wants, privately, but on the fireground there is a chain of command and you follow it. Period.

Tue Jul 31, 02:55:00 PM EDT  
Blogger engine3chauffer said...

Maybe its the new generation of explanation. No longer can we be a military styled profession. Are we falling victims of the new kindlier and gentlier Fire Service? Is this a deadly and silent killer with in our ranks? I say yes. I agree that the chain of command must be taught very early in recruit academy. The fireground is NOT a democracy unless it means life safety. We no longer have the luxury of hiring mature young people. We must teach them respect and maturity. Not to undermine or question everything an authorative figure says.

Wed Aug 01, 12:36:00 PM EDT  
Blogger Kirk Allen said...

Where to start?

Respect...or Lack there of?
Discipline....or lack there of?
Fire Behavior Knowledge....or lack there of?
"Measured" Fire Flow Ignorance!

The list goes on but I think you get where I am going.

Respesct is earned from our actions, Discipline established through our management skills. All to often I see orginazations that have little or no discipline in the fire house and the end result is lack of respect for higher command or anyone with authority from outside the fire house.

I believe if we would get back to TEACHING real fire behavior and tie it directly to MEASURED fire flows we would see folks focusing on pulling the line that flows the GPM being asked for.

Not sure what your operation flows from your 2 1/2" lines but I know I have seen numerous folks only wanting 250-gpm from there 2 1/2" and that can be handled no problem with the right equipment from the 1 3/4" lines. The key is KNOWING what are lines realy flow.

Had you told me to pull the 2 1/2" line the first resposne would have been, "Yes Sir!" Then I would have asked one question, which would have been, "How many GPM do you want Chief!"

My two cents worth :)
Chief Allen
Kansas, IL FPD

Wed Aug 01, 01:00:00 PM EDT  
Blogger Chief82 said...

I know exactly how you are feeling. As a 22 year vet and now a Fire Chief, I have grown accustomed to my directions being followed (especially by the Firefighter rank) without question and hesitation. However, as the other reply indicated, generations change and so must leadership styles. Now I'm not suggesting that we need to hold hands and explain every detail of Strategy and Tactics on the fire ground...that's not the place for that. But, as Fire Service leaders, we must recognize a changing generation of firefighters (smarter, better educated) and adjust how we train our personnel. Pre-fire exercises should include all the ‘who, what, where, and whys’ so that everyone is on the same page with the explicit understanding of S&T; philosophy of our respective departments. This should help avoid the “questioning annoyances” on the fire ground. My operational philosophy is simple; train them to the required and desired expectation, encourage input from all the members, feel free to question (some) of my strategic and tactical direction but only after the incident during the critique where it is appropriate and a detailed, clear understanding can be relayed.

Don’t be too hard on the kid, it sounds like he was just thinking of efficiency in terms of speed…he has yet to learn of efficiency in terms of better application.

Wed Aug 01, 01:04:00 PM EDT  
Blogger DG said...

I cringe when I hear stories like this...and I'm not a 20 plus year veteran. I tend to put part of the blame on his officer, then his crew, then on the training he has recieved. I'm not saying this kid isn't guilty of being disrespectful either. I had a similar situation the other day when a fellow firefighter (who I came on the dept with) was bashing their probationary firefighter. I try to look at these guys (and myself) as lumps of clay. We mold them and shape them in the station and the training ground. Most of the new guys I've seen are ready, willing, smart, and extremely capable but without the right shaping they can turn to lumps of garbage.

Wed Aug 01, 04:39:00 PM EDT  
Blogger Denver Lieutenant said...

As a company officer, I would never question the cheifs call on something like that and would not expect any of my crew members to do that either to me or to a chief. As officers and firefighters we may not understand or agree with the immediate tactics but we must remember that the IC has a plan in action and we need to follow that. As long as it's not a MAJOR safety issue we can't question orders. A wise person once said, " A goal without a plan is merely a wish."

Wed Aug 01, 04:49:00 PM EDT  
Blogger safetyman said...

safetyman: I have been in the fire service for 40 years. I have been on the EMS side and firefighting. I am a fire instructor and teach basic firefighting to recruits. I always have my students use a 2 1/2" line to make sure they understand the signifcance of it in firefighting. All instructors should endeavor to impress on their students the significance of ICS and respect for the officers in the fire service. Respect for officers will eliminate the off hand comments the chief received.

Wed Aug 01, 05:51:00 PM EDT  
Blogger Psyd Effex said...

Please allow me to respectfully respond to this issue. Although I am not a firefighter, I am a social scientist fairly well versed in expert and novice group interaction behavior, especially under extreme conditions and environments. I have always directed my studies towards fire fighting scenarios, and I believe much can be learned from looking at the subject matter expert (such as a seasoned Chief), as well as the fresh novice (a rookie) during critical incidents. I have also attended numerous fire conferences, including wildfire, and I have met with social scientists from around the world from such fire-prone environments as Australia and Spain. Why? Well, fire fighting psychology has always been my area of interest, and I hope to make a difference someday in working with the development of training materials, and looking into helping to lower the "100 fatalities per year ceiling" that we can't seem to break. Also, my father is retired LAFD, and my son is currently with LACoFD, so you can see I also have a personal interest. So now that I have qualified myself to post a comment on this blog, I would like to respond to the question. I completely understand how a CO would be offended by the questioning of authority from a rookie. This is not only generational, but it is about a well-earned sense of expectation on the part of the expert. The expert has more experience, is wiser, and knows better than any boot right out of training. What I believe is starting to change in this generation is something that is entirely rooted in respect and a sense of cooperation, not at all the authority-disrespect that some people may be feeling (although I understand why that feeling exists). I think it is the current climate in a new way of dealing with group hierarchies, and interjecting something called "human factors" into the fire fighting community and SOP's. There have been recent attempts by some fire trainers to implement something called "Crew Resource Management" techniques, something taken from aviation in order to save lives. Its main premise is that everyone involved has the duty and the responsibility to "speak up" or act when appropriate, and not be chastised for doing so. And this is absolutely based on respect for the rank order, but removes the fear of speaking out of line if you are the rookie. This is, of course, a very abbreviated version of the idea, and with all due respect, I encourage everyone to take the time to look into this approach. Especially those in charge, as these people are our gems, our experienced people, whom all others look up to with the utmost regard, and who needs everyone on the crew to participate in the vigilance and not be afraid to report something that they feel may be amiss. The wise expert may see and hear the rookie's concern, and appreciate where it comes from, and not be threatened by the remark as he may later explain his reasoning. He can later use it as a teaching opportunity. But, what if, on the other hand, the rookie points out something critical only HE saw, or perceived, and this information saved someones life? Or what if he didn't speak up, and someone died? This strategy has also worked on Naval aircraft carriers; during a critical incident, all rank hierarchy goes "flat" and everyone has the authority to shut down a take-off or a landing, from the top dog to the deck hand. Why? Because there may not be time to go through the chain of command in a critical incident, and everyone is trained to keep constant vigil in time-sensitive operations.
So, this kid may have thought he was doing a good thing, not by trying to be "smarter", but by wanting to help someone he looks up to just get there faster, thereby showing his respect for his boss with his help.
Thanks for listening.
Respectfully
Pam Montazeri, M.A. Human Factors Specialist Candidate

Wed Aug 01, 06:07:00 PM EDT  
Blogger CABelle74 said...

Questioning decisions/direction of a Chief Officer or any Officer as a less tenured Firefighter, is disrespect on a level that is beyond words.

I know, eventually, a Firefighter must assert him/herself to show the ability to be autonomous thinkers. However, unless that Firefighter has demonstrated knowledge, skill, and leadership beyond his/her years of service to superior Officers, decisions/direction from an Officer should not be questioned, I feel. Of course, unless the situation is unsafe and/or the Officer is known to being unsafe. The statement should be in the form of a suggestion with explanation.

Thu Aug 02, 12:58:00 AM EDT  
Blogger Past Chief Beisang said...

After having served for 16 years and having held all positions on the fireground from FF through District Chief and now back to FF...... I find it distasteful that an order like that is second-guessed. I read with interest the posting by Pam Montazeri. I feel SOME things she says are on the money with a HUGE caveat.... the countermanding or questioning must be done in a thoughtful information based manner. This sounded as if were an instantaneous reply to an order. The kind I used to get from my 15 year old. This has no place on the fireground. Yes it would be appropriate to alert your crews and command structure to safety issues but to question tactical commands is out of the question. Especially in this case, the exposure control and potential for spread far exceeded the smaller line. In fact it may have even warranted a master stream such as a stinger. If that had been the question like "would you like us to also pull a master stream after placing this line?" would have been appropriate. Even that should have been through the crew chief not FF to sector commander (chief).

Bob Beisang
Past Chief
Caledonia Fire District
Caledonia, NY

Thu Aug 02, 08:12:00 AM EDT  
Blogger Chief Tom said...

This seems to illustrate the dogged realization that schooling equates to fire service experience. It doesn't, and never will but the system puts that into these youngsters minds and they become "certified" experts by virtue of the number of classes they pass. So they begin to comment on the order before they really know why the order was given and what it really was to accomplish.

Thu Aug 02, 08:51:00 PM EDT  
Blogger Nicholas said...

This type of attitude has been around since the beginging of time. To blame this incident on this or that generation is not really looking at the problem. Time changes, and while some things shouldn't (like chain of command and following orders) some things should and thats how you view "younger people". There is growing talk about his generation gap in the fire service. I don't see it. I am a young guy (29) and I have been blessed to work with some really old crusty firemen. Don't get me wrong, I am different than these guys, but I have learned a great deal and take the pearls they leave. Just like talking with a grandparent or elder there is special bond that take place despite the age difference. One thing I do notice about these very special crusty firemen I knowis THEIR ability to relate to younger people. Yet again, another concept as old as time. Its these people who can teach and listen to other people and brigde this supposed gap. I say learn from these guys so next time when someone does something like quesiton a simple order on the fire ground, generation gaps aren't blamed.

Fri Aug 03, 12:37:00 PM EDT  
Blogger BRICK said...

OH THE EGOS! Is this all that we’re teaching chief officers anymore? Of all the statements that have been posted to this blog, the vast majority are from “offended” company/chief officers that take exception to the fact that someone with less rank would dare to question their authority. Oh the egos!
In fact all of these “superiors” have missed the point Skip was trying to make. The article is called, “What was he thinking”? Well friends, the answer is plain… he wasn’t.
Poor tactics, poor training or the lack of any training and years of departmentally accepted and tolerated sloppy firefighting have all served to reinforce bad habits on the fire ground in many a young firefighter.
The firefighter’s comment was that he could stretch a 1 ¾ line faster than the 2 ½. He made no attempt at usurpation; he made an observation, and that my friend is not insubordination-it is his right.
Whose fault is it that a new/young firefighter is so deceived by the smaller 1 ¾” lines ability and places far too much faith in their limited capabilities? The answer- the training officers, company officers and chief officers that have taught this information through their use and constant reliance on the smaller hoses and through the lack of continuing departmentally administer education.
Those in charge should be ashamed at the realization of their own failures and ineptitudes to properly indoctrinate, inculcate and educate the newest members of our profession. The kid in this story was regurgitating the months or years of improper information and preprogramming that has been given to him, whether by accident or design, by watching and listening to his company officer, his training officer and his chiefs. Above all we must lead by example.
The moral of the story is; once you are a senior firefighter, company officer, training officer, fire chief or any number of individuals that has even an infinitesimal ability to become impressionable to the newest, youngest members of our trade, you have inherited; number one- the responsibility (like it or not) to learn the business yourself, and number two- the responsibility to pass that information on to others through classes, indoctrination AND by example.
Be a leader and stop thinking of yourself and your own perceived self importance. Be a true leader and start thinking about your responsibility to those you serve. That’s right; you serve and are responsible for your charges; their welfare, training, their actions and abilities. You are the designated adult.
So, are you offended as a leader; is your new collar brass tarnished? Are you just waiting to get to the end of this rant so you can post your response? Listening without hearing? Or are you taking this to heart as a good leader should?

Mon Aug 20, 02:46:00 PM EDT  
Blogger Rick Fritz said...

Right wrong or indifferent. It's happening. It's not the firefighters fault. Training has become touchy feely and we are losing the grit of our senior trainers. He probably said he could pull the 1 3/4" hose faster, because in training they made hose handling and line asdvancement a game. whatever teamk could deploy the line the fastest won whatever, a day off, a by on a quiz, whatever. no thought was given to what line should be pulled, in order to 'win' the fastest line would be pulled to win the contest. We continue to train the new guys using games and all winners, no losers mentality. We are not teaching our new inexperienced firefighters the Why and wherefores of what they are doing, as long as they do it faster than anyone else that's good enough. We must train firefighters to THINK. Are we still training firefighters with 100lb 2/1/2" lines that splatter them all over the training ground? or have we taught them the skill needed to adsvance a large line effectively?

Wed Aug 29, 11:00:00 AM EDT  
Blogger Tongass said...

Skip,
My question is why is a chief Officer giving Fire Ground Orders to the nearest firefighter that he can find was there not a company officer who is responsible for the management of her company. I think this was a question on a lot of entry tests (Your Company officer gives you an order and the Deputy Chief of fill in the blank gives you a different order)

Thu Sep 06, 02:31:00 AM EDT  

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On January 28, 1981, LAFD Apparatus Operator Thomas G. Taylor was killed in a fire set by Mario Catanio. Eight other firefighters were injured in that fire. Inmate Catanio (CDC No. 77711) was convicted of murder, arson and fraud in the conspiracy to burn down the restaurant where Thomas Taylor died. It is inconceivable to me to think that Inmate Catanio could soon be released back into society. When considering the circumstances of the crime it is an affront to all firefighters that this "firefighter killer" could be let out to enjoy his life. Thomas Taylor was not given this opportunity, on January 28 1981 his life was taken from him. None of his friends or family were able to enjoy him or time with him again. Arson which kills a firefighter must be a life sentence. Cop killers and firefighter killers should never see the outside world again ever.

The LAFD and all of his brothers and sister across the United States will always remember the courageous service of Apparatus Operator Thomas G. Taylor while remaining vigilant to protect society from and each other individuals who commit such heinous crimes. On August 17, 2007, the California Department of Corrections (CDC) Board of Parole Hearings (BPH) will convene to review lnmate Catanio's suitability for parole. As such, the Department in collaboration with United Firefighters of Los Angeles has begun an aggressive letter writing campaign to appeal to both the BPH and Governor Schwarzenegger opposing Catanio's parole.

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posted by Bobby Halton
7/26/2007 03:11:00 PM

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Blogger RN/EMT said...

I agree. This inmate should NEVER be allowed to be released. We, as Firefighters and Medics are there to save lives and property. Our lives are precious to us and our family and friends. When someone kills one of us, it deprieves our family and friends of us. Our families should never have to worry about a firefighter/medic/cop killer being released back into society to possibly repeat this same action.

Fri Aug 03, 01:00:00 AM EDT  

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The Senate is scheduled to debate the FY08 Homeland Security appropriations bill, S.1644, on the floor the week of the 23rd of July. This bill proposes setting spending levels for the Fire Assistance Grants program at $560 million as well as Staffing Adequate Fire and Emergency Response (SAFER) program at $140 million for the coming fiscal year.

It is very important that you contact your senators in Congress and explain how vital the Fire Grants program is to protecting and equipping the fire service. Call your senators as soon as possible to convey your support of the Fire Grants program.

If you do not have their direct telephone number, you can visit the Senate web site at www.senate.gov to obtain this information. The Senate operator can be reached at 202-224-3121.

In the FY2008 budget released in February, the White House proposed cutting funding to the Assistance to Firefighters Grants program by almost half, to $300 million from the $547 million appropriated for the current fiscal year of 2007. The House bill, HR.2638, funds the Assistance to Firefighters Grants program at $570 million, an increase by $23 million over last year. The House bill also funds the SAFER program at $230 million, an increase by $115 million over last year. The bill passed the House by 268 to 150. The Senate is also proposing to increase funding for these critical programs as well. Contact your senators to express your support for the Fire Grants program.

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posted by Bobby Halton
7/22/2007 03:53:00 PM

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"We all saw this coming: now Emergency Medical Services (EMS) workers employed by American Medical Response (AMR) throughout Massachusetts, Maine, and New Hampshire voted 92% Wednesday to walk off the job in response to the AMR corporations repeated violations of federal labor laws and their proposal to cut employee wages and benefits. I know our firefighters in the area are getting ready to fill in for these EMS folks, who are just trying to make a living working for AMR. Read the whole story here.
http://download.pennnet.com/fe/misc/20070720emsstrike.pdf

I hope someday all emergency medical services in the United States is run by the local FDs (wherever that is possible). I do not care how the departments set it up. I just know fire departments run EMS better than private companies do. And that opinion is shared by some of the best doctors in America-- read their thoughts here.
http://download.pennnet.com/fe/misc/200706fdemsresponse.pdf
I am positive we treat each other better. We do not call ourselves brothers and sisters because it sounds good: we mean it."

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posted by Bobby Halton
7/22/2007 03:23:00 PM

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Blogger ILOVE911 said...

BOBBY,BOBBY,BOBBY !!!

Look at the statistics Bobby !!!

Private companies run 2-3 times the # of ALS and BLS transpots at the FD, and with only a quarter of the lawsuits !!

Of Course, Bobby, you Hero's have capped your negligence claims to a few hundred thousands, and the local newspapers, not wanting to offend " The Hero's" do not publish your acts of negligence !

Wed Jul 25, 09:52:00 PM EDT  

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Wildfire season is in full swing, and the U.S. Fire Administration has released this paper on risk management in wildland operations. You can take a look at the paper HERE.

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posted by Peter Prochilo
7/19/2007 01:50:00 PM

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I am watching the 6:00 news at home. A story about a young girl in her early 20's dies a few weeks after being pulled from an apartment fire in a community about 30 miles from here.

I'm sure it has something to do with my own daughter, Fay. She is in that age bracket. She's out of town in South Carolina and going to grad school. God I miss her right now. But this fatality gets to me. I'm almost sick. You know how those bastards from the news media stick camera in the parents face and ask "how do you feel that your daughter just died from burns over 60% of her body"? Her dad answers. This one gets to me!

You know we ALL know how to stop it! Us! Firefighters! We know how to stop 4000 fire deaths a year. 1500 kids a year. We all know the dirty little secret. Just ask Vina Drennan.

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posted by Skip Coleman
7/17/2007 06:09:00 PM

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Part of the reason I agreed to participate in this blog is my urge to get us (all firefighters, including myself) to think. Just like the little fire problem I gave you to "think" about a week ago, I plan to present some photos and other illustrations, simply to get you to look at things form hopefully, a different perspective.


We at Fire Engineering continually get questions concerning the cover photos on the magazine. Yes, we realize that not every photo is showing a perfect fireground operation. Our hope is that you look at the cover, then try to analyse what is going on. Sometimes it's tough because you are only getting one small snippet of a big, continually evolving scene. Hopefully after you analyze the cover, you take it to the station kitchen table and talk to others on your crew about it as well.


When I teach I use the word "focus" a lot. I think that my job as an incident commander is to focus on this big picture in front of me. A Company officer's job is then to focus on his or her assignment. If everybody maintains their focus, hopefully, everything gets done.


Part of my focus is to continually look at "the picture", whatever the "picture" is (a house on fire or an overturned vehicle at an MVA) and make sure that everything that can be done with the staffing that I have on scene, is being done. Another part of my focus is to again, continually look at "the picture" and if something doesn't look right - quickly evaluate it and then stop it!


Look at the photo below that was a cover of Fire Engineering a few years ago, and try to guess where I'm going to go with this.

You pull up at this fire and this is the first thing you see. "What is stopping these guys from using the doors to get in?????" Almost anytime we have to enter a building that is on fire and we can't use the normal means of ingress/egress because of fire conditions--bells and whistles should be going off in our heads. Something isn't right! Again, what is stopping these guys from going in and out the front or back doors? If something doesn't look right -- stop it! What do you think?


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posted by Skip Coleman
7/15/2007 09:09:00 AM

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Blogger John Buckman said...

Skip
I believe the challenge is how to overcome the task saturation that comes with being an IC that is not operating at the strategic level. Most IC's are very comfortable operating at the tactical level and in many casesIC to perform more efficiently and effectively in a rapidly changing, hostile environment.

John M. Buckman III

Sun Jul 15, 09:11:00 PM EDT  
Blogger NWG said...

Seems like many questionable decisions were made by the first-arriving company officers. It almost seems like they "thought too hard" about how to enter the structure. Hopefully the IC arrived on location soon enough to change these initial tactics, revise the strategy, and give the company officers a new set of tactics. Obviously we don't know if there was entrapment, but the dry 1 3/4" line in the center window indicates that the firefighters entering the structure are not solely in search mode.

As a young company officer (maybe not in terms of age but in terms of years as an officer) I have yet to pull up on something like this. As the initial IC, however, my hope is that I wouldn't overthink the situation, but make sound strategic and tactical decisions that wouldn't require the arriving chief to undo an unsafe situation I've created.

I also look at that picture and wonder if they're abandoning the building or entering the building. I'm not sure which situation I'd find worse--not using the doors to enter the structure, or several firefighters in the process of escaping an untenable situation--upon arrival as an IC.

Chris Mc Loone

Mon Jul 16, 09:12:00 AM EDT  
Blogger Russ Chapman said...

Boss
This looks to me as a well thought out process of VES that is attempted when there is a bonified report of a victem still inside, and in these particular rooms. Knowing this department that is pictured, this was not a panic situation, but like I said, a well thought out operation. VES is conducted and initiated for just these types of grabs. The key here is to control the door in the room being entered, or making a quick sweep of the room and then get out immediately. That is, to me, what it looks like what is occuring here.

Lt. Russ Chapman

Mon Jul 16, 06:48:00 PM EDT  
Blogger Skip Coleman said...

I posted this photo as an example. I have no comment on the particular fire that occured nor the tactics employed. My point is that if you pull up and see firefighters doing something un-natural such as going in and coming out windows instead of doors, something may not be right and if something isn't right - maybe we need to go to plan "B".

Tue Jul 17, 09:50:00 AM EDT  
Blogger Robo said...

Robo
VES for victims, entering/ exiting, don't know. My concern is the FF's in the structure on the lower right hand side of the photo not wearing their PPE. The guy inside does not have the regulator on nor does the guy entering/existing the window. Same for the guy going up the ladder. He does not even look ready to mask up. A little smoke may be okay but that much black smoke just can't be good for ya. IC has enough to worry about upon arrival. FF must use good judgement and wear their PPE.

Wed Jul 18, 10:02:00 AM EDT  

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Our friends at the National Fallen Firefighters are calling on us to step up and help our brothers families in Charleston. I spent some time down there and the families as they entered the memorial took your breath away. The number of children our nine brothers left behind as well moms and other dependents saddened us all.

Please check out this link:
http://downloads.pennnet.com/fe/misc/20070712nfffcharleston.pdf...

It's all about family, our family.

Thanks,
Bobby

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posted by Bobby Halton
7/12/2007 12:21:00 PM

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The death of recruit firefighter Racheal M. Wilson is still being investigated, and the fallout politically has not stopped. "Goodwin has remained in his position as chief, however, and not everyone is happy about that," according to the article linked below. Where does the buck stop--when are we responsible and when are we not? This training incident is far from over in regards to lesson learned and how the Baltimore FD is going to proceed in the future. Should Goodwin stay or go?

http://www.citypaper.com/columns/story.asp?id=13835

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posted by Bobby Halton
7/11/2007 04:59:00 PM

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Blogger Tom Rinaldi said...

Lets not destablize and continue to demoralize an entire department. There needs to be a focus on past practices, learn of the mistakes and make changes. First responders in all disciplines get complacent and its time to tighten up on the execution of policies and procedures or write some new ones. He's on probation, he needs to take positive action.

Thu Jul 12, 01:35:00 PM EDT  
Blogger John Buckman said...

Bobby
I believe the Chief should stay until it can be shown that the Chief was aware of the obvious lack of concern for following procedures.
There is always a rush in many of these type of incidents to point finger and place blame.
In this case there is plenty of evidence that more than one person is responsible for this horrendous event.

Sun Jul 15, 09:15:00 PM EDT  

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Charleston and Wills

We want to be aware of our safety all the time but, being ready for the worst on or off the job is really important. CLICK HERE to read about how the Charleston nine's families are trying to cope with the lack of wills to address their estates.

The best way to insure your family is treated the way you want is to maintain a Firefighter Emergency Contact Form. The information that you provide is only to be used in the event of your serious injury or death in the line-of-duty. Every firefighter should have one filled out fully and accurately because the data will help your department take care of your family. The forms should be updated anytime you feel it is necessary, but reviewed annually. This information is considered highly confidential and must be restricted for emergency use only. It should at a minimum contain personal information about your family--wife, kids, mom, dad, brothers, and sisters--names and contact information. List several who you want to be contacted first, best friend, chief, union president to notify your family. It should identify your religious preferences, donation wishes, veteran status, funeral wishes and the location of your will.

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posted by Bobby Halton
7/11/2007 04:46:00 PM

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I am on the road again. I spent today with some great firefighters in Spokane, Washington. Tonight I am in Pasco, Washington, the town adjacent to Kennewick, where firefighter Eric Lyons died on Friday. Everyone here speaks very highly of this good firefighter, whose cause of death is still undetermined. Eric was found unresponsive in the station following a busy shift involving several brush fires.

They will lay Eric to rest with full honors on Thursday. As more information on why we lost this fine firefighter becomes available, I will pass it along. We will post the funeral information on this link as soon as it is finalized. The entire Fire Engineering family is deeply saddened by this tragic loss and wish to express our condolences to Eric's family.

The conditions in Washington have the entire state under a red flag warning. Firefighters here are expecting a very active fire season. To read more about the fires raging across the West, CLICK HERE.

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posted by Bobby Halton
7/09/2007 11:04:00 PM

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Blogger Ellen said...

Great to see you this week Bobby! Thanks again for taking the time to visit the SFD and speaking at our State Chief’s Conference. The passion that you have for the Fire Service is admirable and contagious. We all enjoyed having you in the Pacific Northwest and please remember that you are always welcome. –Brian

Wed Jul 11, 11:53:00 AM EDT  

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In the photo above, a fire occurs in a bedroom and looks like it is extending to the attic. Irrespective of your staffing and initial response, absent of any other information than what you see, your initial priority is to locate and darken the fire. Tommy Brennan always said that "all things being equal - equal fire problem, search problem, ventilation problem etc., put the fire out!" I couldn't agree more. If staffing permits only one tactic at this fire, put the fire out. In my opinion, my next priority is to vent the second floor so we can "look" for victims as opposed to blindly feeling for them. After help arrives, we can check the attic for extension and salvage the second and first floor and finally overhaul. What do you think?


Skip Coleman, Technical Editor Fire Engineering

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posted by Skip Coleman
7/09/2007 06:00:00 PM

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Blogger NWG said...

I agree, particularly looking at the conditions at hand. The time of day and lack of any vehicle in the driveway lend themselves to the probability of no inhabitants. So search would not be a first priority, unless of course someone is on the front lawn screaming that there are still people in there. Put the fire out in the bedroom before it gets any worse. Open up the walls there to start knocking the fire therein. By then a second line should have been stretched and almost certainly a vent team has been sent to the roof.

Chris Mc Loone

Tue Jul 10, 09:31:00 PM EDT  
Blogger Blitzattak said...

Right on Skip!! I agree. Even though Life Safety is the #1 priority, Incident Stabilization, controling the fire, may eliminate your Life Safety problem. Allowing the fire to build without controling it will lead even larger issues. 2nd due crews can search, ventilate, etc. Lets control the fire 1st.

Wed Jul 11, 08:36:00 AM EDT  
Blogger Jack Abraham, EdD said...

Agreed, also. Even if going Rescue Mode, the first priority is separating the fire from the search team with water. Also, use of thermal imaging can help with simultaneous fire location for attack purposes and primary search on the fire floor.

Wed Jul 11, 09:26:00 AM EDT  
Blogger Tom Rinaldi said...

I agree, look at the big picture, do the size up, assess the facts as available, make a command decision and assign the resources to carry out the tactics. Always consider the worse case senario and have your contingeny plans ready, when conditions change, implement the contingencies or change the tactics. Just make a decision and be ready for the unexpected. Simplicity and exercise the basics.

Wed Jul 11, 09:41:00 AM EDT  
Blogger idahofiresar said...

I too would have to agree. By rapidly attacking the fire and getting knock down you make the environment more tenable if there are victims, not to mention the fact that you make the search effort much easier. With todays short staffing you may only get to pull one play out of the book and with scenario that is the one.

Thu Jul 12, 12:48:00 AM EDT  

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This really interesting article on San Francisco FD and the ladder shop was forwarded to me. I loved it. It is informative and interesting.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/06/25/BAGELQL66L1.DTL

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posted by Bobby Halton
7/05/2007 12:24:00 PM

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Welcome to our Fire Engineering Editorial Board Blog, I have to honest, I am not sure how all this works so bear with us as we find our way here. I want to fill you in on the Charleston memorial. I know there are tons of questions we all are asking that are going to get answered over time. We are going to keep you linked to stories we get and information we know you are interested in. We also have editorial board folks everywhere in this great country, all heavily involved in the work. All of them are being encouraged to put short notes and links here so you can see how codes are developing or how SCBA's are moving through the NFPA process. The way I understand it, if it relates to firefighting we can talk about here. Our Web guy Pete is going to try to get us squared away on this deal, so hang in and lets us know how we are doing.


A word about the Charleston Memorial on June 22

A lot of friends have been asking me how the memorial went. I know thousands of you wanted to come to Charleston to pay your respects but could not and were wondering about the memorial, so I thought I would let you know how it went. I was there to assist the families and support the Charleston Fire Department (CFD) solely. The memorial itself was well done and we were represented, extremely well. The memorial was dignified and solemn; nine men of Charleston, nine heroes were honored. The convention center was filled. Uniforms from around the world were there. Every branch of the military was there--officers and enlisted. Citizens, bankers, lawyers, tradesmen, moms, dads, school kids, people from every walk of life came. Every faith was present and every head was bowed in prayer.

Hundreds of firefighters and citizens, men and women, drove non-stop from everywhere and slept in their cars just to be there. Many arrived with no place to stay but found space on hotel floors and lobbies. Dozens came who had to turn around the next day and return home to pull a shift.

The honor guards were there and they came in numbers which wrapped completely around the convention center floor. They were at once inspiring and humbling. The presence that the honor guards created was spellbinding. The FDNY Emerald society was the memorial band, and never has a pipe band preformed so well. At night the pipe bands from around the country were everywhere and you could hear pipers playing beautifully.

The IAFF was represented by one of the most dignified and gracious men in our industry, General President Harold A. Schaitberger. The IAFF general president had men working under Rich Duffy around the clock to support the families. The IAFF General President Schaitberger was there solely to honor and support those brave men's families, and he honored them all union and non-union alike.

The IAFC was represented by Chief Jim Harmes, a true gentleman and firefighter's chief. Jim was everywhere consoling and supporting. His natural leadership and honest empathy were evident in every word he spoke in every hand he held and in every embrace he gave. The IAFC sent a team as well and they were working side by side with the IAFF, and the South Carolina Firefighters for the families and the bothers and sisters of the CFD.

I ran into and met dozens of volunteer firefighters who came from everywhere across the country. The America volunteer brothers and sisters showed well and proudly. The memorial was well done and dignified, as far as an event of such immense tragedy can be. We paid our last respects to nine fallen brothers with honor.

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posted by Bobby Halton
7/05/2007 12:16:00 PM

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About the name - Skips Scats. When I first came on the job in 1975, we had several two piece engine companies in the city. One unit was the full sized engine. This was staffed with three men. The other unit was called a Scat. It was a two person unit that had a small pump and EMS equipment. As a rookie, I always wanted to be on the Scat. Scat is also a musical term where by the singer substitutes improvised nonsense syllables for the words of a song, and tries to sound and phrase like a musical instrument. For some reason, I thought that fit my Blog.

Anyway!

The National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) was in Toledo last week. There were here to conduct Positive Pressure Ventilation tests in a vacant High School. I have been working with them (Dan Madrzykowski, Steve Kerber and friends) for a year or so. They came to Toledo in the spring of 2006 to test PPV on High Rise Structures. Can these fans create enough pressure to pressurize the stairway of a high rise building? Can they hold smoke and fire in the room of origin and can they negate the effects of a wind driven fire in high rise structures? Members of the FDNY and Chicago fire departments were here to observe the tests.

In the fall of 2006, we went to Chicago and conducted live burns in a vacant 16 story apartment building looking to answer the same problems only with live fire.

Last week, they came back to Toledo. My hypotheses was that "large area searches" are not practical. It takes too long to search (effectively) a restaurant, department store or a school gym in zero visibility. As firefighters, we were always taught to enter the Immediately Dangerous to Life and Health (IDLH) atmosphere and remove the victims. Wouldn't it be better if we could remove the IDLH from the Victim using PPV?

Well, They did the tests and the verdict will be out in a few months. What do you think?


Be safe, fight-em Smart and Be Happy

Skip

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posted by Skip Coleman
7/03/2007 01:45:00 PM

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Skips Scats - Welcome
Welcome, I am Skip Coleman, Asst. Chief of the Toledo Fire Department and Technical Editor for Fire Engineering. Hope your summer has begun well and uneventful. I want to thank Peter Prochilo and the other heads of Fire Engineering for giving me this opportunity to occasionally discuss "stuff" with you. I hope to present you with some nuggets and thought provoking questions that hopefully will make us all better at our professions. I plan to throw out some questions on current events and also to delve into tactics and strategy for the first responders. I have to cut this first "welcome to my world" blog short. The boys from NIST (National Institute of Standards and Technology) are in Toledo to conduct more positive pressure tests. Chiefs from FDNY and Chicago are observing as well as photographers from the Discovery Channel. I will discuss what exactly they are doing and what they found over the next few weeks. Talk to you soon, Skip

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posted by Skip Coleman
7/03/2007 12:56:00 PM

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